Steam Multi change #2959
Steam Multi change #2959
Conversation
|
Why did you choose dark steel as the material for the next level of this multi? It makes no sense to me because all other steam machines use bronze and regular steel. Also, dark steel will be available at late MV (AFAIR), and at that point I'd prefer Advanced Mixer instead of this steam-powered monstrosity. This decision breaks whole progression (from my point of view). |
|
dark steel is just EBF I think in terms of gating. but really this whole thing was about all steam multis having MV recipes as I recall. though mixer MV recipes is pretty massive as you get diesel. |
I think the mixer should blacklist fluids entirely, so just no input hatches in its structure. |
diesel is cell. no fluids involved |
The steam mixer uses the @Override
public RecipeMap<?> getRecipeMap() {
return GTPPRecipeMaps.mixerNonCellRecipes;
} |
|
My personal recommendation/suggestion, after some discussions in the discord with @NotAPenguin0 , is to have the following recipe locks for Tier 1/2 Steam Multis: Tier 1: The controller recipe should use the HP singleblock machine types, but that would also mean the addition of singleblock variants for the mixer/centrifuge/washer/pump. Alternatively, if we don't want to make new steam singleblocks here (especially if there's no real progression reason to use them), these multis could require a different post-Steel / Rubber resource requirement, as to keep Tier 1s obtainable in roughly mid-late steam. Generally though, since these multis are the tier 1 variant and we already have 2 tier 1 multis in existence (squasher & grinder), both placed in mid-late steam, I believe that any new tier 1 steam multi should also be made accessible in roughly the same progression point. Tier 2: There should be a separate Tier 2 controller, & said controller should require Polyethylene & gets made in the LV Assembler. Polyethylene isn't obtainable immediately entering LV, meaning you will have to make some kind of oil based ethylene line (regular, seed, or fish). And the LV Assembler adds a good cost requirement in advance to have access to the multis. I don't agree with using Dark Steel as it is specifically post EBF (since the mixer is purely solid items and not liquids it cannot do a good chunk of good MV mixer recipes for what's it worth), and progression wise Dark Steel would mean having access to the cheaper Steel methods through the EBF. If we want to preserve the at-access expense of the higher tier multis, I would argue that it should be placed when Steel is still more difficult to obtain. Also, after thinking about it more, I don't agree that the recipe for any Tier 2 controller should include circuits at any capacity, for more thematic reasons. |
|
One other thing I forgot to mention, now that I took a look at the tooltips for the new multis. I don't agree with 16x parallel for tier 2s. Assuming we keep the same bonuses for tier 1 multis as per the change done in GTNewHorizons/GTplusplus#875 (aka 66.6% steam usage & 33.3% faster recipe duration), 16x parallel would mean the steam usage would roughly match with 2x efficiency vs. a bronze singleblock, or roughly close to a 2:1 L:EU/t conversion (akin to steam to EU generators at 100% efficiency). Problem here is that when you're doing an MV tier recipe, at 16A parallel, that requires a whopping 51080L/s throughput. You would literally need Large Dark Steel Pipes to get past that throughput requirement, & steam hatches currently only support 64000L buffer. Instead of doubling the parallel for tier 2 multis, my recommendation would be to keep it at 8x parallel but improve the speed/L usage following one of the two following paths. Note: I did make a modification for the Tier 1 steam usage & recipe duration multipliers from 1.33 L:EU & 1.5x Duration to 1.25 L:EU & 1.6x Duration. This would lead to an exact 2x efficiency ratio without any issues for rounding at max parallel, but lower parallel quantities could still experience rounding inefficiencies, which imo makes logical sense here. Also, all values at 1x parallel assume rounding up decimals at the L/t point of calculation.
Option 1: Pure Efficiency Upgrade Tier 2: 1.125:1 L:EU/t Cost (56.25% steam use), 1.25x Recipe Duration (60% faster vs Bronze, 20% slower vs Steel) (~2.8x Efficient vs Singleblocks) Option 2: Mirroring High Pressure/Steel Logic Tier 2: 2.5:2 L:EU/t Cost (62.5% steam use), 0.8x Recipe Duration (150% faster vs Bronze, 25% faster vs Steel) (2x Efficient vs Singleblocks) Option 1 is the best for having an actual upgrade with regards to efficiency (i.e. less total steam required). It also has the lowest max EU -> L/s conversion when considering MV recipes (the max being 21600L/s at an 8A MV recipe). The slight drawback here is that Tier 2's actual ratios in terms of the current tooltip (steam use rate & % faster) is a lot less conventional, but this could always get changed to "uses X% less steam" instead. This still won't be more efficient than EU machines of course, which would otherwise require a 4x Efficiency rate to properly match. Option 2 matches the best with, well, the actual Bronze -> Steel upgrade mechanic for singleblocks (2x speed but 2x cost vs. Bronze meaning 4L:2EU/t at 1x speed). It would also have the second highest max EU -> L/s conversion when considering MV recipes (the max being 48000L/s at an 8A MV recipe, only beaten out by the current proposal which has a max of 51080L/s at a 16A MV recipe). Therefore, like the current proposal of 16x parallel, max parallel usage would need significant throughput infrastructure, and it would in actuality be more expensive L/s wise compared to the current proposal at a per parallel basis. On the other hand, this would have the fastest processing speed across all 3 of the options I mentioned, being outright faster than the baseline recipe if you used an at tier singleblock machine (with the exception of LV OCs). Anyways, hope this information here can either be considered for the steam multi changes or at least get used as a reference in the future. |
current ones are 33.3% faster as you can see in the PR you linked |
Whoops sorry long post so I misplaced a number, thanks / fixed |
Added craft for Forge Hammer
Renamed Steam Controller ID
Added Dark Steel Block For Steel tier